I am trying to do some experimental programming on a PIC micro; for the time being it does not matter which of the seemingly thousands that are available.    I seem to have wasted $50 in getting the Microchip PICkit-2 Debug Express package.    Here are some of the problems i have seen that Microchip has made: 1) Using their use this first CD, under PICkit 2 , click on Quick Start and select Debug Express .    Five Quick Start steps are mentioned, but there is NO #5 but there is TWO #4 steps; i guess nobody knows how to count.    Well, if one actually attempts to follow the steps listed, by actually installing MPLAB IDE, one can *NEVER* see that page again! 2) The 44-pin demo board is a real piece of art; a) virtually useless work area including space for a 36-lead(!) flatpack (0.3x0.8), arrays of small square pads, 6 groups of 6-lead SOT pads, 2 rows of thru-hole pads; at least the Vdd and Gnd holes are connected!    But the best is yet to follow: even tho the Users Guide schematic shows parts for two oscillators, THEY DO NOT EXIST! 3) There is absolutely NO indication that the board is useable to PROGRAM any PIC device, which seems to make the whole kit useless. 4) On one of the CDs inthe kit is a datasheet for PIC16F882/883/884/886/887 and for the 884/887 there are TWO DIFFERENT pinouts for the same part number; another piece of art! **    I already have an Intel Hex file ready to try for the PIC16F877A (40 pin dip) part; so WHAT do i do to *program* it and maybe try it out?

the time being it does not matter which of the seemingly thousands that are available.   I seem to have wasted $50 in getting the Microchip PICkit-2 Debug Express package.   Here are some of the problems i have seen that Microchip has made: 1) Using their use this first CD, under PICkit 2 , click on Quick Start and select Debug Express .   Five Quick Start steps are mentioned, but there is NO #5 but there is TWO #4 steps; i guess nobody knows how to count.   Well, if one actually attempts to follow the steps listed, by actually installing MPLAB IDE, one can *NEVER* see that page again! 2) The 44-pin demo board is a real piece of art; a) virtually useless work area including space for a 36-lead(!) flatpack (0.3x0.8), arrays of small square pads, 6 groups of 6-lead SOT pads, 2 rows of thru-hole pads; at least the Vdd and Gnd holes are connected!   But the best is yet to follow: even tho the Users Guide schematic shows parts for two oscillators, THEY DO NOT EXIST! 3) There is absolutely NO indication that the board is useable to PROGRAM any PIC device, which seems to make the whole kit useless. 4) On one of the CDs inthe kit is a datasheet for PIC16F882/883/884/886/887 and for the 884/887 there are TWO DIFFERENT pinouts for the same part number; another piece of art! **   I already have an Intel Hex file ready to try for the PIC16F877A (40 pin dip) part; so WHAT do i do to *program* it and maybe try it out? Hi Robert - I know your frustration level in getting started.  We've all been there in the beginning.  Sometimes what seems to be obvious to a manufacturer is anything but to the consumer... Point 1) : If you followed the steps (1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 4), did you get MPLAB to install correctly?  Does it run OK?  If you really want to see the screens again, look on the CD.  A lot of times they'll have a directory of .html splash screens, etc. Point 2):  If you think the work area pads are useless, don't use them! Some people like to use the SMD pads for development. Point 3):  The documentation I found doing a cursory web search definitely stated it could program devices. Point 4):  Its not unusual to get mulitple pinouts for a device.  Most of the time (and __especially__ with Microchip controllers) the fundamental power, ground, crystal functions are the same with maybe a redefinition of function on some of the pins. Usually Microchip will include a readme file that should help in getting started.  According to the list of materials included in your kit, you should have a booklet called Tips and Tricks , also.  A quick look at what the PICkit-2 is capable of shows you should be able to download programs to the board and the PIC16F887 chip.  You can execute the program, single-step it, modify variables, etc. from your PC with the debug window using the debug module connected through your USB cable included with the kit, also. There should also be information on the programmer itself.  If you want to program your own device outside of the demonstration board, I would suggest looking at the schematic for the debug port pinout and which debug port pins go to which microcontroller pins for debug, program loading, etc. How did you generate your hex file for the PIC16F877A?  Did you use an assembler or a compiler?  Can you retarget the code (change the processor type selected in the file and then reassemble or recompile) for the PIC16F887 and try to download it to the demonstration board?  I would suggest to try this, also. All-in-all, I'd say you got a good deal with this kit for $50.  Patience Grasshopper Good luck. Dave

getting started.  According to the list of materials included in your kit, you should have a booklet called Tips and Tricks , also.  A quick look at what the PICkit-2 is capable of shows you should be able to download programs to the board and the PIC16F887 chip.  You can execute the program, single-step it, modify variables, etc. from your PC with the debug window using the debug module connected through your USB cable included with the kit, also. There should also be information on the programmer itself.  If you want to program your own device outside of the demonstration board, I would suggest looking at the schematic for the debug port pinout and which debug port pins go to which microcontroller pins for debug, program loading, etc. * Absolutely NO booklets; there is a use me first CD that has the stuff i mentioned; the second CD has MPLAB.   I think that first CD has that Tips and Tricks section; it definitely has a sample program section and other stuff.   The Programmer User's Guide does have a schematic that is not useful; since when an 8-pin MCU was a typical MCU? * Chapter 3 page 25 of the Programmer User's Guide shows this extremely versatile 8-pin MCU; does that mean the included demo board is actually a *target* and the application circuit is actually the LEDs on it? As I said, the first thing I would do would be to take the list of included parts from the website above and ask why those pieces were not included from the person you bought your kit from... Dave

...snip... Point 3):  The documentation I found doing a cursory web search definitely stated it could program devices. * Well that is what i had thought, but there was no clue as how to plug in one's MCU for programming, *or* how to connect it via some pod as an ICE or In circuit Programmer. No documentation included sounds like you may have been shorted on your delivery...  Where did you get your kit?  I did a cursory search on the web and found the following site, which lists all the materials you should have gotten (notably the Tips and Tricks booklet, etc.): http://www.e-sonic.com/whatsnew/Microchip/PICkit2.htm I'd talk to whoever you bought the kit from.  The booklet probably has a more detailed schematic of the interface board included, also. Point 4):  Its not unusual to get mulitple pinouts for a device.  Most of the time (and __especially__ with Microchip controllers) the fundamental power, ground, crystal functions are the same with maybe a redefinition of function on some of the pins. * Well, after doing a lot of looking, i found that the ICSPDAT and the ICSPCLK pins they talk about for programming are *also* called PGD and PGC, which used in *most* of the datasheets (and *not* ICSPwhatevers).  BUT, the part i need to use sez NOTHING about either designation!  Another real piece of art. ICSPDAT is in-circuit serial programming data and PGD is programming data ... they're exactly the same function.  Similar for ICSPCLK ( in-circuit serial programming clock ) and PGC ( programming clock ). Usually Microchip will include a readme file that should help in getting started.  According to the list of materials included in your kit, you should have a booklet called Tips and Tricks , also.  A quick look at what the PICkit-2 is capable of shows you should be able to download programs to the board and the PIC16F887 chip.  You can execute the program, single-step it, modify variables, etc. from your PC with the debug window using the debug module connected through your USB cable included with the kit, also. There should also be information on the programmer itself.  If you want to program your own device outside of the demonstration board, I would suggest looking at the schematic for the debug port pinout and which debug port pins go to which microcontroller pins for debug, program loading, etc. * Absolutely NO booklets; there is a use me first CD that has the stuff i mentioned; the second CD has MPLAB.  I think that first CD has that Tips and Tricks section; it definitely has a sample program section and other stuff.  The Programmer User's Guide does have a schematic that is not useful; since when an 8-pin MCU was a typical MCU? * Chapter 3 page 25 of the Programmer User's Guide shows this extremely versatile 8-pin MCU; does that mean the included demo board is actually a *target* and the application circuit is actually the LEDs on it? As I said, the first thing I would do would be to take the list of included parts from the website above and ask why those pieces were not included from the person you bought your kit from... Dave    There were 2 CDs; one for MPLAB, and the other labelled Insert This CD First - and that has a folder named Tips and Tricks containing 7 various PDF documents.    Got the kit from Mouser; in a sealed blister package.    Anyway with your help added to my snooping in various documents, i fiured out that the little black pos *IS* the programmer, and he included demo board is an application.    More snooping dug up a 40-pin familly diagam showing PD, PC and PM not shown anywhere else; most especially NOT in the data sheet.    I repeat again, a real piece of art!    Except for the possibility that i  will have to load SP4 yet again, it seems that i may be in business.    Thanks.